35 Replies
      Latest reply on Dec 1, 2017 6:32 AM by dpn4
      Sergex89 Level 2 Level 2 (30 points)

        I tried today to backup my Macbook Pro and when I connect the external hard drive i get an error every time I try to do a backup. The external harddrive is a WD My book 3 TB and i formated it to HFS file-format and the problem is because of the incompatibility with APFS. The Macbook is upgraded to the latest MacOs which is High Sierra Developer Beta 2. Has anyone encountered this problem?

        • Re: Time Machine not functioning with High Sierra
          richard.cartledge Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

          "Time Machine is disabled for macOS High Sierra 10.13 beta 2 update 1 (17A291m). Apple

          recommends turning off Time Machine for APFS volumes on earlier versions of macOS

          10.13 beta 2 as the space for snapshot files may not be freed correctly. (33006905)"

          • Re: Time Machine not functioning with High Sierra
            mbsoft Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)

            Yes, and this is currently the intended behavior as documented in the Release Notes.

             

            At the moment, APFS is not compatible as format of the source volume for Time Machine either. This is planned to change later when the new snapshot feature of APFS will work stable enough.

            • Re: Time Machine not functioning with High Sierra
              Just_wayne2305 Level 2 Level 2 (65 points)

              You shouldn't have an issue backing up from your APFS on your MBP to your external HFS HDD.

              What is the error message you’re getting?

              I backup my MBP (APFS) to an external HFS formatted HDD using TimeMachine without a problem, it actually states in the release notes that the TM drive must be HFS for now.

              • Re: Time Machine not functioning with High Sierra
                microdoc Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

                Same problem here. All my backup drives are set to Exclude and grayed out. I can't set any drives to back up...

                  • Re: Time Machine not functioning with High Sierra
                    mbsoft Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)

                    As noted several times in this thread: This is the intended behavior if the source drives are using APFS.

                     

                    To clarify this once more:

                     

                    1. You cannot use APFS for the Time Machine destination disk. This has never been planned and it is normal that this won't work.

                    2. With Developer Beta 1 and Developer Beta 2, you can use APFS volumes as backup source with Time Machine. This should work according to documentation, but in practice there is a serious bug in the new snapshot feature. In the worst case, the source disk will run out of space which could also cause complete data loss.

                    3. With Developer Beta 2 Update 1 and Public Beta 1, you cannot use APFS volumes as backup sources with Time Machine, because Apple has intentionally blocked this to avoid the possible data loss mentioned in item (2).

                  • Re: Time Machine not functioning with High Sierra
                    alanshutko Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

                    Beta 3 enables Time Machine once again.

                      • Re: Time Machine not functioning with High Sierra
                        joncrawford Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

                        Mine now says "Time Machine couldn't create a local snapshot to back up from because there was insufficient free space on the source volume(s)." I have 75GB free on a 500GB drive. Not sure how much it needs but I ddin't get this message before.

                        • Re: Time Machine not functioning with High Sierra
                          Pcrispy Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)

                          Time Machine still gives an error stating "Time Machine could not create a local snapshot to back up from"

                           

                          Anyhow experience that? 

                           

                          Mid 2015 MB Pro Retina 2.8Ghz i7 using APFS file format

                            • Re: Time Machine not functioning with High Sierra
                              BiggStuu Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

                              Is the time machine drive converted to APFS?

                                • Re: Time Machine not functioning with High Sierra
                                  Pcrispy Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)

                                  No, I've never seen a way to convert it to that.  Is that a necessity to work now that my laptop is APFS?

                                   

                                  *actually I've also tried using a 1TB USB SSD as Time Machine and get the same error.  I did find that doing an option click on the disk drive in disk utility gives the option to convert to APFS.  Tried that on the SSD and got an error saying "The operation couldn’t be completed. (com.apple.StorageKit error 118.)"

                                   

                                  **Update #2  I used an older Mac to format the SSD with Disk Utility to make sure it did GUID partitioning (trying to create an APFS containter with Terminal stated it had to be GUID first) and that worked to format the drive.  Brought the drive back to this machine and then it allowed me to convert to APFS.  Went to Time Machine and chose to use that drive as the backup and then it said it couldn't be used because it was an incompatible format.  It prompted to convert (format) so I let it do that which formatted it back as Mac OS Extended Journaled.  Looks like now it just gets stuck on "Preparing backup"

                                    • Re: Time Machine not functioning with High Sierra
                                      djhowe Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

                                      Just to clarify... I came to this post too late. My time machine backups are very slow under High Sierra public beta 1 (as of 19 July 2017). Updating my Sierra backup after installing High Sierra was going to take all day. So I thought to myself 'I wonder  if it will be faster if I update the backup disk to APFS?'

                                       

                                      Whoops. It won't let me backup to an APFS disk. And as there's no way to convert an APFS disk back to HPFS without wiping the contents; I'm running High Sierra pants down with no backup.

                                       

                                       

                                       

                                      I spent about 6 hours yesterday starting the backup, it did about 70GB of 195. Its restarting today, but is sloooow to start off with; 1.3MB in 30 mins. It will speed up as it goes along I think.

                                       

                                      Note the backup disk is USB 2; but even so, Activity Monitor showed disk throughput to be in the 5MB/s range at it fastest...

                                      I've tried :-

                                      sudo sysctl debug.lowpri_throttle_enabled=0

                                       

                                      And renicing the backup process, along with killing spotlight. Still slow.

                              • Re: Time Machine not functioning with High Sierra
                                mtime Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

                                I had the same problem with TM backups of the local disk. This has to do with whether you have opted to format the local drive to APFS during the OS install. If you reformatted to APFS, TM will not backup your local drive. If the local drive was formated as OS-Extended during the OS install, then TM will work fine

                                  • Re: Time Machine not functioning with High Sierra
                                    Just_wayne2305 Level 2 Level 2 (65 points)

                                    TimeMachine works fine if you have your drive running your MacOS formatted to APFS, your backup drive must be HFS though or TimeMachine won’t backup to it.

                                     

                                    There was an issue with it in Beta 2 so Apple disabled backing up your drive with MacOS installed, but this was fixed with beta 3 so your backups should be working fine if you follow the correct steps, otherwise you might need to send a bug report.

                                  • Re: Time Machine not functioning with High Sierra
                                    Pcrispy Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)

                                    Just updated to Beta 4 and my Time Machine backup still fails and says it can't create a local snapshot.  Using APFS on my laptop and HFS on the external.

                                    • Re: Time Machine not functioning with High Sierra
                                      @viral Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

                                      Any update on this?

                                       

                                      What are the guidelines for Time Machine backups.

                                       

                                      Unable to find any clarity online...

                                      • Re: Time Machine not functioning with High Sierra
                                        JackpotRising Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

                                        This is also happening to me! I have a 2TB Time Capsule and ever since upgrading the HS it never gets out of preparing backup.

                                        • Re: Time Machine not functioning with High Sierra
                                          nathansonben Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

                                          Hi,  I upgraded to High Sierra 10.13.1 last week and I also have not been able to do a Time Machine back up since.  My external drive is a Seagate 3 MB USB3 drive.  I have already verified it with Disk Utilities - nothing wrong (I can see and read just fine).  Time Machine either hangs at "preparing backup" or after about 250mb (which takes hours to get to), resulting in a backup failed message.

                                           

                                          If anyone has come up with workarounds - would love to hear it.

                                          Ben

                                            • Re: Time Machine not functioning with High Sierra
                                              dpn4 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

                                              My problem started at about the same time, and I get an error message saying "...unable to create local snapshot to backup from...".  I have a ticket open with Apple support.  They had me submit logs and engineering says I have a hardware failure on input/output ports, but I am skeptical because the USB work fine for everything else -- and because you and I are coincidentally experiencing the exact same problem at the same time, and there is this whole discussion about the problem going back months.  I too would like to be informed of workarounds if anyone has any.

                                               

                                              Further details that may matter for troubleshooting:

                                               

                                              • When I run Disk Utility > Repair, one of the lines in the detail log says the "snapshot is invalid... unable to repair".
                                              • Immediately prior to installing 10.13.1, I had 142 GB free.  Immediately after installing 10.13.1, free space dropped to 127 GB.  I can't account for the sudden change.  But it makes me wonder: Do I have an invalid Time Machine snapshot hogging space and preventing backups?
                                              • Re: Time Machine not functioning with High Sierra
                                                lcorchiolo Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

                                                I have the same issue. Since upgrading to High Serria. I have a Backups.backup directory that never completes and a disk image of my hard drive I can never open. If anyone has an idea on how to fix I appericate.

                                                  • Re: Time Machine not functioning with High Sierra
                                                    dpn4 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

                                                    Yes. The Apple specialist who helped me had me reboot to Internet Recovery mode with Command+Option+R (hold until the globe appears).

                                                     

                                                    From the menu that appears after the session starts, select Disk Utility.  On its View menu select Show All Devices.  Note well: He stated the Disk Utility stuff has to be done in Internet Recovery mode because the First Aid tests are run differently there.  The following steps, he said, would not yield reliable results for our purposes if done in regular mode.

                                                     

                                                    Click the Mount button on the Disk Utility menu bar and mount the Macintosh HD,

                                                    Run First Aid on the first one -- Apple SSD -- or whatever your first one is -- and on the third one -- Macintosh HD -- and skip the middle one.

                                                     

                                                    Although First Aid "completed successfully" with a green checkmark, the details log included lines that approximately said:

                                                     

                                                    error: oms: btn: o_oid (0x0)

                                                    Snapshot is invalid.

                                                    The volume... could not be verified completely.

                                                     

                                                    Based on the error and Snapshot is invalid, he said the only way to fix was to completely reformat the drive and reinstall the OS from Internet Recovery.

                                                     

                                                    If you do this, you will lose all data, so you either need good Time Machine backups, or manual backup copies of your data.  His advice was to avoid using the Time Machine backup to migrate fully the files from the old installation because that could bring corrupted preference files, etc., back.  I used the manual data copy method instead.

                                                     

                                                    As I recall -- and I'm just going by memory and my notes and I'm not an expert -- the next steps were, from Disk Utility in Internet Recovery mode, erase Macintosh HD and choose the format for Mac OS Extended Journaled.  Do not select the options for Encrypted or Case Sensitive.  If your drive is an SSD, the new installation of High Sierra will convert the format to the new AFPS.

                                                     

                                                    From the Internet Recovery menu, select the option to install the operating system.  When it completes, you can reboot to normal mode, log in, and confirm that your Time Machine works as expected.  The first backup takes a longer than usual, remember.  If all is successful, move your data back --manually like I did, or via the Migration Assistant app (in Applications/Utilities), and reset all your system preferences.

                                                     

                                                    Good luck with your work.