42 Replies
      Latest reply on Jan 4, 2018 11:58 AM by Erbi Laci
      PhAstier Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

        Hi all,

         

        Server 5.4 has a weird thing. From release notes :

         

        • Caching Server, Time Machine Server, and File Sharing advanced options are now built directly into macOS

          • Caching Server now supports a tiered architecture

         

         

        Now, I can confirm all this is gone from Server itself. How do you manage them now ??? I don't get it.

        • Re: Server 5.4 changes
          PhAstier Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

          Those services can not be managed anymore from the CLI with serveradmin....

           

          Apple, we need some explanations, as these are vital to us !!

          • Re: Server 5.4 changes
            PhAstier Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

            OK....

             

            Right click on a shared folder in the Sharing prefernce pane and choose advance options.

             

            This allows to set up Time Machine Server.

             

            I hope this will revert to the previous interface.

             

            As for caching, I haven't seen the option yet.... All the more surprising as it is said to support "tiered architecture" ??

            • Re: Server 5.4 changes
              A-bomb13 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

              To me this is a clear sign of upcoiming deprecation for macOS Server. This really, really *****. I manage 60 of them!

              • Re: Server 5.4 changes
                richard.cartledge Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

                I      uite like the iCloud caching being part of the base OS.

                Imagine in a college/school/business people can log into their icloud to any Mac and when the computer requests data from iCloud, it tells it to try the local copy on another Mac in the building - their files are pulled from the last Mac they used if possible. All behind the scenes.

                 

                Same goes for Apple Updates, saves a lot of internet bandwidth.

                • Re: Server 5.4 changes
                  GStone Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

                  I am a little confused by the release notes.  Are the changes to caching and file sharing permanent?  I may be the only person in the world that runs a 100% apple shop, but I use server.app for file sharing with a pegasus thunderbolt raid box.  I don't use caching server at all, but it doesn't make sense to me to remove these features from server.app.  I generally manage my server remotely via server.app and the command line via shh connections.  The ability to manage these services from both the command line and via server.app is pretty critical to the way I manage our business.  While I could migrate all of the services that server.app provides I find having one app to manage all of these services quite effective and efficient. ( even with it's quirks )  I would hope apple moves these back to server.app and allow control via the cli. 

                    • Re: Server 5.4 changes
                      A-bomb13 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

                      Same thing here. I too thought it was just an early build at first but the release notes was like a dagger in the back. We too use Mac Minis and Pegasus RAIDs (40+ installations). I don't understand moving the features out either. Server works perfectly fine as of Sierra and this is a huge blow to us.

                    • Re: Server 5.4 changes
                      CordovaBay Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

                      I don't understand what is going on with Server Beta. I downloaded Server 4.0 from the develiper site. The site says it's Server Beta 5.4 (17S1119j)  but once I start Server on my computer it says it's Server 5.3.51 but the build is the expected 17S1119j. What is going on? Is there a rename of the Server?

                       

                      I've gone through this process twice. Each time when it hits the "Updating Profile Manager service" it hangs there for ages. Could be an hour? More? Activity Monitor shows micration_tool is running at 100% CPU for most (all) of that time.

                       

                      Once working, the Web services seems to be whacky. It displays the websites I've added locally and the ip addresses are responding to pings but the intended web page do not display. The default web services page displays for most addresses and where there is a conflict, no pages are displayed at all.

                       

                      Any ideas? Am I running a strange, almost 10.13 version of Server but not quite or is there something else wrong with my configuration.

                       

                      I updated Server from Server 5.3.1 (16S4128) if that helps anyone.

                       

                      This is running on a Mac-mini.

                        • Re: Server 5.4 changes
                          Fousthvk Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

                          Same thing but mine is a fresh install. I chalk it up to that they were working on the new 5,3 and opps we forgot we have to release a 5.4 beta.....

                           

                          This definetely is a sign that Server App is going away. Apple really has no monitary reasons to keep this going. THey will refure you to Jamf and Active Directory as replacments. Or basicly just say sorry we dont do that anymore youll have to find a third party solution.

                            • Re: Server 5.4 changes
                              A-bomb13 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

                              Yeah, this really *****. We can't use SMB for various reasons but in "Server 5.4" you can't share a folder over AFP on a APFS volume. Not being able to see which users are connected, using which protocol, and for how long is a deal killer for us. Also not being able to see image sizes and timestamps for TIme Machine Server is a real loss. I sincerely hope they put the services back in but I'm sure they won't and slowly kill off macOS Server. I had heard this same thing at a recent conference I went to. In two different on-stage discussions Apple IT folks at huge northern california tech companies said if you manage nad admin Macs, it's time to start looking for a new job.

                          • Re: Server 5.4 changes
                            GStone Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

                                 How loud do we have to yell to get these services back into server.app.  I now need to remote in with a gui to set up and make chanegs to these services?  I would love to know the thought process that went into this decision.  It must not be important to many, like it is to me, otherwise there would be quite a bit more feedback on this.  Hopefully there will be command line utilities to control all aspects of these serivces.  The "servers" I have don't even have keyboards, monitors, or mice attached to them.  Server.app was nice casue I could still get the gui control remotley without screen sharing.  There were also command line tools to get the job done as well.  Maybe I am the only person that liked how easy it was to manage multiple servers from server.app and make changes to filesharing and such.  I know there are other non apple solutions to this, but they just broke something that has worked rock solid for the past 7 years in my location.

                            • Re: Server 5.4 changes
                              A-bomb13 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

                              Everyone on this thread should submit feedback in Server.app > (menu) Server > Provide Server Feedback.

                                • Re: Server 5.4 changes
                                  GStone Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

                                  I filed a bug report with each beta, my third bug report was marked as a duplicate of my second bug report on this.  The second and first bug report have no responses as of yet. 

                                    • Re: Server 5.4 changes
                                      wegface Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

                                      All the people moaning they use this for important work, well-- do not use beta software! Stick to the older versions and your kittens will survive.

                                        • Re: Server 5.4 changes
                                          GStone Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

                                          Wegface, I do not think you are understanding the probelm, the problem is not running beta software, the problem is that they moved these services away from server.app and have included them in the core OS with no known way to manage these services remotely on a headless machine.  If I want to set up time machine server, caching server, and filesharing I now need to screen share into the remote machine if I want a gui, or wait for the documentation to come out in order to use the command line.  It was just easier and quicker to be able to do all of this from within server.app. 

                                            • Re: Server 5.4 changes
                                              wegface Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

                                              The core OS of which you speak is beta. Roll back to sierra and use the older server app.

                                              Strange you say "no known way to manage these services headlessly" and then, in your next sentence,  give a solution-- screen share.

                                                • Re: Server 5.4 changes
                                                  JMPATLANTA Level 1 Level 1 (20 points)

                                                  So are you saying that if we remain on Sierra (non-Beta) and thus keep our heads in the sand that when High Sierra and Server 5.4 goes GA then Caching, etc. will be back in Server 5.4? I don't think so.  Ignoring and not discussing the obvious changes they are intending to make in Server 5.4 and High Sierra is not the right approach.  Unfortunately it seems that Apple doesn't care.  A great solution would have been to add the Caching into the core OS with High Sierra like they did but if you install the 5.4 Server component then those core OS services are disabled in lieu of the Server 5.4 Caching component along with it's command line support and advanced options.  Not a whole heck of a lot of additional coding needed here to accomplish.  Also, not sure why they are still charging $20 for Server either.  They'd do themselves and all of us a favor by making it free and opening it up to more eyes.  Just when you think they are making more strides into Enterprise this happens.  Oh well, what can you do.

                                                  • Re: Server 5.4 changes
                                                    Fhadalharbi Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

                                                    F

                                                  • Re: Server 5.4 changes
                                                    A-bomb151 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

                                                    I'm with ya GStone. The roadmap is the problem.

                                            • Re: Server 5.4 changes
                                              trffrt Apple Staff Apple Staff (0 points)

                                              Content Caching in macOS High Sierra can be managed via UI using System Preferences > Sharing > Content Caching (access the advanced settings - including the Parents feature new in High Sierra - by holding down the option key and clicking the Advanced Options… button), and also via the command line using "sudo AssetCacheManagerUtil activate" to start it, "sudo AssetCacheManagerUtil deactivate" to stop it, and "sudo -u _assetcache defaults write /Library/Preferences/com.apple.AssetCache.plist <setting> <value>" to change settings.  Read the man pages for AssetCacheManagerUtil(8) and defaults(1).

                                               

                                              File Sharing & Time Machine advanced options can be managed via UI using the contextual menu on a shared folder in System Preferences > Sharing > File Sharing.

                                                • Re: Server 5.4 changes
                                                  A-bomb13 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

                                                  This is simply not good enough for managing a large number of clients and servers. We need more granularity for File Sharing and Time Machine Server that are present in Sierra Server. The inability to set only AFP or SMB on different share points is a huge step backwards. We still can't use SMB with Adobe and Microsoft file sharing. The AD user mask doesn't get observed correctly as part of a group. There is no reporting for Time Machine Server whatsoever. We use this daily to track broken or stalled client backups. Apple's investment in the Enterprise is absent in High Sierra Server. No offense.

                                                  • Re: Server 5.4 changes
                                                    pbregieira Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

                                                    "This is simply not good. We need more granularity for File Sharing and Time Machine Server that are present in Sierra Server. The inability to set only AFP or SMB on different share points is a huge step backwards. There is no reporting for Time Machine Server whatsoever."

                                                  • Re: Server 5.4 changes
                                                    BlackBruceWayne Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

                                                    Exactly!  How are we supposed to manage Time Machine clients on a network.  This is a major screw up!

                                                    • Re: Server 5.4 changes
                                                      jrmull Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

                                                      Good discussion from the group.  You fellows have raised a lot of concerns for me.   My question is whether I should stick with Tomcat or work further on Server 5.4 as a future platform.  Your opinion is welcome.  I installed server 5.4 and deployed two web applications on my home desktop computer (the trash can model).  The html basic site works ok but the other website using JSP, java classes, mysql have not yet connected properly.  It can't find jars, jsp, classes, root war deploying.   My light background is using tomcat.  web-inf, libs, etc.  On my mini-mac development box ,the jsp/mysql using tomcat9 works ok so I am in search of  some good documentation on OSX Server 5.4  My hope is to set up multiple personal websites for the volunteer groups that I participate with.  I don't need file sharing, multiple users, office environment sharing a single box, but could use the email facility.    Thank you for any advice.  Regards John

                                                      • Re: Server 5.4 changes
                                                        FinnT Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

                                                        Looks like by using the Server application on a remote machine you can select the server (in the side bar) whose file sharing you want to control. Then select Storage to see the server's file structure. By clicking the action button at the bottom of the window you can control permissions. Clunky but better than  remoting in.

                                                        • Re: Server 5.4 changes
                                                          Erbi Laci Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

                                                          Dear Developer Team!

                                                           

                                                          Why do this?

                                                          Please give us back the really good server solutions (Software and Hardware)!!! 5.4 server is... What will happen next?

                                                          AFP is will be dead and we buy some windows server solution because the smb on mac is bugyyy?!

                                                           

                                                          Please give us "iserver" with:

                                                          - next generation AFP for the bigger files

                                                          - next generation Mail with more option like whitelist blacklist for domains (if cli have the command implement it to GUI)

                                                          - next generation firewall

                                                          and more...